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Private Colo - 1/3 racks, and what does 1/4 rack actually mean?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Bruce View Post
    there are some colo providers that charge separately for space, power, IPs, and transit. submetering is a very nice way to go, rather than a simple "measure power at startup".

    anyone in UK doing true submetering? not just monitoring power realtime, but actually charging on usage by kWh.
    LDeX do it under their DCaaS (Data Centre as a Service) model.
    GoDaddy are abusing WHC with shill advertising

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Bruce View Post

      anyone in UK doing true submetering? not just monitoring power realtime, but actually charging on usage by kWh.
      That was my goal at PoundHost. I was looking into PDUs where each port could be monitored remotely. At the time, I could only find Raritan ones, which were really expensive. APC did bring some out shortly after someone else took over running PoundHost.
      Michael Follett

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      • #18
        Perhaps I'm being dumb, but I know of at least one colo company that has starter packages giving a baseline pricing for space and power. For eg default on 11u lock might be 2 amps but if a customer only needs half as its a HA pair of VPN concentrators for example a custom package would happily be put together.

        Why that is so difficult I don't know to be honest..
        Peter Knapp - CCS Leeds Ltd - www.ccsleeds.co.uk
        Coal Road, Leeds. LS14 2AQ / Co. reg: 03507910 / VAT reg: GB 698 2027 05 / Tel: 0113 294 66 99
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        • #19
          *waves*

          Thanks for the wave Ricky.

          CUT

          If I can avoid it , so can you...
          Last edited by Pete-CCS; 5th March 2014, 02:43 PM.
          Ricky Blaikie - Senior Hosting Consultant -Host Consult Ltd
          TEL: +44 (0) 20 3002 7992 WEB: http://www.host-consult.net
          * Colocation * Dedicated and Cloud Hosting * Connectivity * VDC * VOIP *

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          • #20
            Originally posted by mfollett View Post
            That was my goal at PoundHost. I was looking into PDUs where each port could be monitored remotely. At the time, I could only find Raritan ones, which were really expensive. APC did bring some out shortly after someone else took over running PoundHost.
            IIRC when I did the work on acquiring the shared colo estate of PoundHost last year, the Raritans were in use for a handful of racks. People weren't being charged on a kWH model, but more generally aimed at their amperage at a point in time view.

            For Milton Keynes, Newbridge and South Gyle in Pulsant we could do kWH based billing across the board as everything had CT's feeding back into the BMS and then my central MIS.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by SteveWright View Post
              IIRC when I did the work on acquiring the shared colo estate of PoundHost last year, the Raritans were in use for a handful of racks. People weren't being charged on a kWH model, but more generally aimed at their amperage at a point in time view.
              They used to go around with a clamp meter to do that. The only way I could see making half decent profits at that level was to automate it all. Other than the hassle of moving it all, I suspect that they sold it off as it was still all manually managed.
              Michael Follett

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Ed-Freethought View Post
                LDeX do it under their DCaaS (Data Centre as a Service) model.
                I read this last time I was at the DC and it sounds like a really good idea.
                Daniel Quinney
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by DanQ View Post
                  I read this last time I was at the DC and it sounds like a really good idea.
                  Honestly it doesn't and I'm not entirely sure how it benefits anyone. A DC has to size based on amps or KW. Say on average cooling and ups systems are sized so a average rack is 4-5KW all with 32a feeds. So you take a colo rack and give someone 4u and a pair of C14 sockets (10 amp max draw) and charge by the KWH - lets say the server draws 6a -what if they decide they'll turn it off at night they will only pay 50%/3a usage but will have required you to put aside 6a of capacity. Maybe they'll have 10a of DR servers - only turn them on when they need to in a DR situation and have them cold 90 % of the time you need to size for 10 amps of servers each month but you'll only charge say 1 amp ect

                  It just doesn't help anyone. It also doesn't help the colo buyer as they'll be on a shared breaker with no one really managing current usage they could easily get trips even though the provider is only selling the rack to 50% capacity in strict KWH terms. Whereas when you buy 1a and 2u the provider takes say 1.5 amps away from their rack capacity and they can then manage it so they don't have capacity issues.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by connected View Post
                    It just doesn't help anyone.
                    except the planet!

                    capacity and planning are important. that needs to be paid for by DC, so needs to be passed onto the customer. however when customers use less energy, the DC is charged less. that saving can be passed onto the customer. otherwise there's no incentive to leave servers running idle.

                    perhaps I should rent idle servers to run mining (I am joking)

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by connected View Post
                      Honestly it doesn't and I'm not entirely sure how it benefits anyone.
                      Flexibility

                      Originally posted by connected View Post
                      A DC has to size based on amps or KW.
                      Which you can still do quite easily with kWh billing

                      Originally posted by connected View Post
                      Say on average cooling and ups systems are sized so a average rack is 4-5KW all with 32a feeds. So you take a colo rack and give someone 4u and a pair of C14 sockets (10 amp max draw) and charge by the KWH - lets say the server draws 6a -what if they decide they'll turn it off at night they will only pay 50%/3a usage but will have required you to put aside 6a of capacity. Maybe they'll have 10a of DR servers - only turn them on when they need to in a DR situation and have them cold 90 % of the time you need to size for 10 amps of servers each month but you'll only charge say 1 amp ect
                      OK, completely ignoring for a second that the DCaaS billing model is about full racks and not per-U co-location, there's nothing stopping you doing appropriate capacity management independently of billing.

                      Originally posted by connected View Post
                      It just doesn't help anyone.
                      Yes it does

                      Originally posted by connected View Post
                      It also doesn't help the colo buyer as they'll be on a shared breaker
                      All shared co-location providers (which has nothing to do with DCaaS billing for full racks) use shared breakers.

                      LDeX DCaaS racks are normal racks on normal, dedicated circuit breakers. It's only billing which is handled differently.

                      Originally posted by connected View Post
                      with no one really managing current usage they could easily get trips even though the provider is only selling the rack to 50% capacity in strict KWH terms.
                      Why would you not be capacity managing the peak current used by any equipment that you installed in a shared rack?

                      Originally posted by connected View Post
                      Whereas when you buy 1a and 2u the provider takes say 1.5 amps away from their rack capacity and they can then manage it so they don't have capacity issues.
                      Which you could still do even if you are billing power on a kWh basis, just boot the server and measure the peak power usage (same as many shared co-location providers do) and use that to manage the equipment installed in the rack versus the size of the feeds.

                      When you're being billed with a flexible kWh model, you are always going to pay more for a given amount of power than you would if you paid a flat monthly rate as that flexibility has to be covered somewhere.

                      It's the same with AWS EC2 machines - you can pay for them per-hour, but they work out more expensive than the equivalent traditional VPS or dedicated server if you use them 100% of the time as you're paying for the overhead spare capacity which Amazon have to maintain.
                      GoDaddy are abusing WHC with shill advertising

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                      • #26
                        We do a product call 'Pay for Power' whereby we charge a fixed minimum of 7kW/h per U and you can have as many U as you care to pay for, then anything you use above that 7kW/H per U is charged per kW/h.

                        The costs work out the same when you scale up to normal usage charges

                        We only have a few customers on it, but the concept was to get away from the I have 11U of hardware so I'll have an 11U rack and in 3 months have to move everything to a 15U rack....

                        Customers on it thing it's great and nearly always want about 75% spare space for future growth ;-)

                        We also charge whole racks by kW/H in a more traditional model.

                        We don't share breakers either.... very bad idea
                        Gary Coates - ServerHouse Ltd
                        Established Colocation provider, Running Two Tier II & Two III data centres from two diverse sites in Hampshire. Bespoke complex managed hosting, 24x7 IT and resilient business connectivity from 100Mbs
                        Tel: 01329 800911 - www.serverhouse.co.uk

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by serverhouse View Post
                          We don't share breakers either.... very bad idea
                          Just look at iPHouse
                          GoDaddy are abusing WHC with shill advertising

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Ed-Freethought View Post
                            Just look at iPHouse
                            I didn't notice anything on their webpage about breakers.... but they're a bit to long a commute for me, I'm also not a big fan of water for fire (and IT hardware usability) suppression ;-)
                            Gary Coates - ServerHouse Ltd
                            Established Colocation provider, Running Two Tier II & Two III data centres from two diverse sites in Hampshire. Bespoke complex managed hosting, 24x7 IT and resilient business connectivity from 100Mbs
                            Tel: 01329 800911 - www.serverhouse.co.uk

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by serverhouse View Post
                              I didn't notice anything on their webpage about breakers.... but they're a bit to long a commute for me, I'm also not a big fan of water for fire (and IT hardware usability) suppression ;-)
                              They've got an Electrak system, so multiple racks off one shared feed. They've had all sorts of problems over the years with failures taking out multiple racks.
                              GoDaddy are abusing WHC with shill advertising

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Ed-Freethought View Post
                                They've got an Electrak system, so multiple racks off one shared feed. They've had all sorts of problems over the years with failures taking out multiple racks.
                                Personally never been a big fan of any shared busbar system whether that be in a DC or office environments.

                                I recall a funny happening on Thames Valley Park where the shower in the Websense office leaked out of the shower room, a long the corridor, and on to one of the office busbars. That made for some interesting panic and noises... oh, and half the electrics in the office having to be replaced

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